Or, Learn Parkour: An ADHD Podcast
Or, Learn Parkour: An ADHD Podcast
OLP 035: Give Me That ADHDussy
In this week's episode of Or, Learn Parkour: join Jordan and Lex as they learn about anthropological and evolutionary theories about why ADHD is the way it is, and why people with ADHD even exist at all! Only vaguely academic but full of goofs, tune in and enjoy. Thanks for listening!
CW/TW: Mental health, ADHD, drug use, coughing, loud noises, traffic noises, yelling, anthropology, grave sites, burial sites, colonialism, archaeology, eugenics, ableism, Disney, bog bodies
Credits:
Cover art by: Krizia Perito
Theme: There Is A Dark Place
Socials:
Mental Health Resources:
thelovelandfoundation.org
opencounseling.com
Episode Sources:
The evolution of ADHD: a disorder of communication?
The evolution of hyperactivity, impulsivity and cognitive diversity
ADHD and Temporality: A Desynchronized Way of Being in the World
ADHD and Evolution: Were Hyperactive Hunter-Gatherers Better Adapted Than Their Peers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tQ-CRfZrhk
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There is a dark place, but I'm not going. No, no, no, no. My way there is a dark place, but I'm not going. No, no, no. My way.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm
Speaker 3:Jordan and I'm master L
Speaker 2:What?
Speaker 3:I have a master's degree. This
Speaker 2:Is
Speaker 3:True. And this week I'm, this is or learn per core. Hey, how about next time you say yes to my bit. This is or learn parkour. It's a podcast about ADHD. My name is L and I have a master's degree and it's actually relevant this episode. So I thought I would just introduce myself with my title.
Speaker 2:No that's and very valid. That's very valid. I just, I think I forgot.
Speaker 3:Did you think I was like all of a sudden asserting dominance over you in a very weird and aggressive way?
Speaker 2:No, no.
Speaker 3:It's like first time in like four plus years of friendship or whatever, and just all of a sudden I'm like, Hey, what if I add some weird dominance and submissiveness to our, uh, friendship, even though we are completely platonic and we Coca parents.
Speaker 2:Thanks. I hate it. Exactly. Obviously I was like, is this like another karate kid? Remake? Oh, like, do we need another one?
Speaker 3:No,
Speaker 2:That's a que yeah.
Speaker 3:I am genuinely you have
Speaker 2:A master's degree. I know.
Speaker 3:Yeah. But you don't go around calling people master when they have master. Not like you do with like people with PhDs and calling them doctor, even though every person I know who has a doctorate is like, please don't call me doctor.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Unless they're like a practicing medical doctor. Pretty much everyone I know is either like don't or no, honestly, I've never met somebody who has like a doctorate in like theater. You<laugh>. Yeah. Who's like, yes, I am. Um, Dr. Jordan Rawlings with my doctorate in theater. Yeah. No. Then people make about the noise that you did, which was
Speaker 3:<laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. So, um,
Speaker 2:But yes, you do have a master's degree. I was there when you got it. And it is relevant this episode of, or, and Paco a podcast about ADHD by people who have ADHD. Because, because
Speaker 3:Today we're gonna talk about some of the theories anthropologically, speaking of how ADHD came to develop in humans and why three to 4% of the population has the brain worms<laugh> and just some interesting stuff. Just want to clarify. I have a master's degree in anthropology, but that doesn't really mean, all. I just read other people's research and findings for a couple days straight and my eyes got very tired. Yeah. And then I knew more by the end of it. And now I'm here to tell y'all so yeah. You know, just, uh, wanna set up some groundwork just real quick. Mm-hmm<affirmative> before we get started. So bear with me. That
Speaker 2:Is one similarity between this and some sort of weird dominance thing is that you should talk about ground rules first.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I said laying the groundwork, which I feel like is a little bit more construction based and it's an analogy, but I also agree with that. So let's do both. Yeah. So weird energy, just a weird energy in the studio today.
Speaker 2:It's I mean, this is, I'm
Speaker 3:A role reversal
Speaker 2:For us in the sense of like, you're the one who did all the research this episode and I'm just here to be pretty.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No, like it's kind of, it's weird. I'm not normally super prepared for episodes. Don't feel super prepared for this one, but I feel prepared enough cuz you know, we're not doctors. Nope. Oh we're not experts. We're definitely not. Yeah. We're just two idiots who have ADHD.
Speaker 2:Let me sit in a closet and talk about it every
Speaker 3:Two weeks. Almost every two weeks we do forget like pretty often cuz you know the after mentioned ADHD, but yeah, we're gonna talk about how there's three to 4% of people who have brains that are a little, little funky, have a little bit of that ADHD stink on'em. So let me tell you something about evolution and natural selection, cuz that will play a real big part in this whole discussion today. If that's not your thing, sorry, but most people in the anthropological community are pretty behind that theory cuz it's pretty scientifically supported. And so we will be going from a Chimp brain standpoint. Okay. We will be coming at this from a monkey brain standpoint.
Speaker 2:That feels correct. Yeah. I don't have a master's degree. I don't know, but I
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. So basically, uh, several thousand years ago there were apes and chimps and this started changing based on the landscape they were in and some of them started becoming completely solely bipedal instead of just quadri peal, chimps and apes started to become partially bipedal and then eventually completely Bal lost. A lot of hair started using complex language and thought started forming societies and social bonds. You know, life became a lot more complex, but it took a while and it was complex because there was a lot of different types of like species of Bial humanoid esque, like human, human adjacent species species, you know, we got, we got Neanderthals, which uh, if you wanna be really fancy and anthropological about it, you can say it Neanderthal. Oh yeah. I think it's like the British thing too. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Aluminium.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And Gar
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, Except for like aluminium, it's actually spelled aluminium. So British people like get why you say aluminium cuz that's how it's spelled there. Okay. It's spelled differently here. It's spelled aluminum in the United States. It is actually spelled aluminum. Oh. When I was living in the UK, I made a point to find out cuz bothered me a lot. No, that's fair. No, I appreciate appreciate it. Why are they adding? Why are they adding a whole syllable? Like you're British. I thought you were supposed to be all, you know, short with the words and<laugh> low on feelings and expressing yourselves, you know? So anyways, so you got like Neanderthals homo, erectus, homo sapiens is what we are mm-hmm<affirmative> but you had some other, some other homo sapien adjacent species that could mate with. So that's why a lot of, um, specifically white people, a lot of European people, cause that's where it's most commonly found in the genetic map. A lot of our European ancestors got down and dirty with some Neanderthals. So, um, cuz most white people do have a little bit of Neanderthal in them really? Mm-hmm<affirmative> I did not know that. Yeah. So I think that's pretty neat and funny that like there was some interspecies mating that clearly happened cuz there's enough of a percentage it's noticeable mm-hmm<affirmative> and anyways, so you, you gotta keep in mind though that homo sapiens, we are that species. And so if you can take a second to let yourself think about the fact that the people who lived thousands of years ago, like our ancestors, their brains were about the same size their bodies were about the same mm-hmm<affirmative> their emotions and feelings. Would've been at the same chemical sort of outputs that they are now mm-hmm<affirmative> and so people weren't less intelligent, they weren't inferior to, you know, us like, so the whole idea that like we were just like grunting little monkey men in a cave is like pretty derivative and pretty, you know, not allowing for the vastness. That is the human species. Yeah. Because even back then, like we spread around real quick. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so yeah, I I'm taking us so far back and I promise there's a reason that I'm talking about like species before homo sapiens and along with homo sapiens, because the thing with at least what we associate medically with ADHD right. Is like that lack of Norine or whatever, uh, a lack of dopamine. And then is it overload of Norine. I don't know. It's been a while since we recorded that episode, I forgot. So, you know, when you look at like the imbalances with like dopamine and Norine and ADHD brains, you know, medically, that's sort of two of the things that you can point to is, wow, this is sort of the same for everyone with ADHD, regardless of what type it is. And so we know that there is a genetic component mm-hmm<affirmative> right. And especially because we see how common it is for ADHD to be a trait that is past genetically mm-hmm<affirmative>. Um, and so clearly ADHD is pretty prevalent to be three to 4% of the population. Yeah. Globally, but not so prevalent that, uh, it, you know, is like a clear universal human trait mm-hmm<affirmative> cause it's not. And so basically what that means, what that leads, experts to look at is why is it only three to 4%? Why did any percentage say at all mm-hmm<affirmative> if it really is, you know, something like the traits of people with ADHD are clearly not like, like there's clearly some maladaptive traits associated with ADHD mm-hmm<affirmative> especially in a productivity based industrial society. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, we've talked about this many times, there's a lot of struggles with being an adult or a child or just anyone with a brain that doesn't work, like the way the status quo expects your brain to work. Mm-hmm<affirmative> so granted, I think it's fair to say that societally speaking, in terms of selecting genetically for what will age you in survival. Yeah. A lot of the traits associated with ADHD would, I would say evolutionarily be considered maladaptive. So can
Speaker 2:You real quick
Speaker 3:Explain maladaptive? Yes. So traits that are going to hurt you more than they will help you. Okay. Versus so, so basically three to 4%, it's not a big percentage. So that means that it's not a good enough, there's not good enough traits associated with it to have kind of spread throughout all of like, you know what I mean, spread throughout more of humanity, but it's clearly not so maladaptive that it got completely bred out basically. Yeah. Is that
Speaker 2:Specifically in reference to its value to survival or can things be considered maladaptive in like other settings?
Speaker 3:I mean, you would have to probably talk to like an evolutionary biologist to like get the real science and nitty gritty behind like maladaptive versus like, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah,
Speaker 3:No that's fair.
Speaker 2:But in this sense we're using it for like survival.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No, I mean, in this sense we're gonna use it for survival because that's the other thing is like, this is, is not an episode questioning what the purpose of human life is here on this planet. Yeah. And so we're gonna go with the scientific evolutionary sort of idea that animals ourselves included. Mm-hmm<affirmative> naturally select. And by that, I mean, get it on selectively with partners or singular or multiple, however many in order to keep producing the species mm-hmm<affirmative> to survive. And so if you see, you know, BA well, I guess we'll do some basics. So if you see someone and you're in a hunter gatherer society and you're sitting there collecting the berries, doing the foraging and the gathering and you look over and you see the hunter who's young and spry and extra fast and catches the meat mm-hmm<affirmative> uh, better than everyone else, but like that's a good provider. Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And if you're that speedy hunter and you look over at the gatherers and you see someone's basket as just overflowing with nuts and mushrooms, then you know, they're gonna be a good provider, you know, that you're gonna be able to survive with this mate mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so for humans, we see a lot of times that childrearing and human history anyways, is very much based on promoting survival. Mm-hmm<affirmative> yeah. That's fair. Not to say that we don't have so many other complexities that go into our lives. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, especially as mamals that live for as long as we do in comparison to other mammals. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> like, and even in comparison to other apes and other, uh, like other apes and even in comparison to other, uh, apes and people like people primates, primates. Thank you. I was like, I literally keep trying to say the word and my brain just keeps going apes. So apes, you wanna try to get apes?<laugh> apes. How about apes? Apes? Yeah. So peoples and Benini exactly God. So in the primate family, we still live a lot longer than most other primates, even mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so there is some level of like, even before we started figuring out modern medicine and like lengthening our lives, humans have had longer lifespans. And so there's so much time in our lives to experience lots of complexity. And so I want to really hit home the fact that like, when we talk about hunter gatherers and we talk about like, they were selecting for survival, like they were still people. And that's why I really earlier wanted to reiterate the fact that we're coming at this from a place of we're the same species that we were back then. Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so try to put yourself in that situation. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Cause like, I mean, that's a big thing that in my experience in anthropology, mm-hmm<affirmative> in this day and age, is that so much of it is really truly like empathy based. Yeah. Like even when you're doing archeology and biological anthropology where you're looking into the past and you can't necessarily talk to people like, like you can with cultural anthropology where you often have a chance to sit down and chat with people and learn more about them, that way you really only have genetic material. And what we find in terms of like evidence at grave sites at archeological dig sites. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> like, you know, and so it is hard because, you know, we, we only have so many remains from back then. So, you know, can't all be UIE, the ice man with our, uh, like just top notch, like, you know, it's so wild to me that there are people, this is a total side note<laugh> this is totally tangential. Yeah. This is gonna happen the whole time. I'm so sorry. I realize I haven't like stopped to take a breath in a while. I feel like this is just, do you wanna do that? Well, I mean, like, I'm fine. I just realized like you haven't really said much. And I think it's just cuz I have not shut up and I'm very sorry. No, you're the, you're the expert this episode, I guess, I guess so UCI, the Iceman is one of the oldest, most intact corpses. Mm-hmm<affirmative> essentially we've ever found mm-hmm<affirmative> uh, because he was frozen deeply frozen in ice. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, there's a lot of things that we have guessed about UIE the Iceman, but nothing you can really prove mm-hmm cuz he's dead. And it was thousands of years ago, but this is completely tangential Uzi. The Iceman is one of my favorite argument pieces for tattoos. Mm-hmm<affirmative> because people today who get upset about tattoos and say that you are doing something that is going against like your own body, right? Like your body's a temple and you shouldn't be like maing it we've been doing this. Humans have been putting permanent ink on our skin mm-hmm<affirmative> for century upon century like millennia mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so you're really joining in like a grand
Speaker 2:Tradition of humanity as we know
Speaker 3:It. And that's the thing, there's so much stuff that you think about the things you need to do every day. Yeah. People still had to do those things back then. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and so I think that's the other thing is to think about what would it have been like to have my little pee brain?<laugh> my little ADHD P brain. Yeah. Back in the day. And how would that have harmed me or helped me mm-hmm<affirmative> and so a lot of these theories kind of are going from that place of like, these are traits we associate with ADHD mm-hmm<affirmative> are they helpful or are they harmful? And you'll find out as we go further into this episode, people have very different opinions on whether they are helpful or harmful. Yeah. Uh, whether these are traits that should be selected for mm-hmm<affirmative> or if they really are maladaptive mm-hmm<affirmative>, which is probably, you know, the, the disagreement even among experts is probably a little bit indicative of why there's like three to 4% of us, but not a tongue. Cuz I bet there's, you know, not, I bet. I know there's, you know, there are people who out there who are like freaks and are like, yeah, give me that one with the weird little brain. I want the one with the brain worms. Yeah. Give me
Speaker 2:That D
Speaker 3:See. Yeah, exactly. So I, so it's like enough that there are some people who must have seen it as a benefit. Yeah. But not enough to like make it like the popular choice of the buffet. Yeah. So
Speaker 2:We're not like other brains, we're
Speaker 3:Not like other brains<laugh> I'm so sorry. So no, it's all good. I dunno.
Speaker 2:I contributing it's it's good that I haven't been talking. I'm not contributing anything.
Speaker 3:No, but this is like what we need, because I think if I just keep talking about this stuff, like maybe it's interesting enough for you to keep listening to your audience. But like, I think it's fair to say that we know that you come here for the idiocy and the dumbs, the dumb dumbs being us
Speaker 2:And also the lollipops that you get at the bank. I think those are worth a shoutout.
Speaker 3:Do they still give lollipops out banks now with like COVID I feel like they probably stopped.
Speaker 2:I will say I have gone to the chase bank down the street from us to get laundry quarters and they have a tray of dumb DUS, but it is behind the teller glass.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think that you have to ask, which I'm always embarrassed to do as a, almost 27 year old adult.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No that's fair
Speaker 2:Ones. Just whip.
Speaker 3:That's so fair. I'm more of a cotton candy fan myself
Speaker 2:More
Speaker 3:For you. Um, yeah, exactly. Same looks so great. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and that makes sense to me. Mm-hmm<affirmative> but I would bet that the tellers are like a child with the parent. Would you like a lollipop? Mm-hmm<affirmative> so I think maybe even if you, well, I don't know, cuz if a grown adult is coming to you hand on their heart to ask you for a du dumb from behind the glass at that point, are you gonna say no,
Speaker 2:I guess there's only one way to find out.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You're just gonna have to work up the gumption, ask and report back. Okay. Not just to me to the whole audience do
Speaker 2:The whole wide
Speaker 3:World. Yeah. So, but do you have any questions so far about where I'm heading with this?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. Okay. I mean, it makes sense so far, I think.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:I'll say something really stupid later. That'll prove that I understood nothing, but
Speaker 3:Until then, please continue. Amazing. Okay. So let's talk about like the key differences in some of these theories. Mm-hmm<affirmative> about how and why ADHD is a thing yeah. In human brains, right at me. So there are three main sort of views on this that I found mm-hmm<affirmative> as I was looking through things. And so the first idea is looking at ADHD as a genetic anxiety. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> that the, the imbalance of dopamine and Norrine is a thing that can very easily cause anxiety and depression and that those are often comorbid with ADHD as we've discussed. Yeah. Yes. And so there is one theory that comes from the view that ADHD is anxiety based. Mm. And so the reason that it was selected for, at all is because of the paying incredibly close attention to everything all at once somehow. Gotcha. The deep anxiety that you feel when you're just sitting still, when you're not mm-hmm<affirmative> doing anything, the inability to sleep through a full night and you know, having a sort of up rhythm there. Yeah. So like those sorts of things mm-hmm<affirmative> are sort of where they're coming from. Right. It like there's survival. Yeah. There was this anxiety and need to survive. Yeah. And ADHD brains in terms of how anxiety can motivate us. Mm-hmm<affirmative> that makes sense. Yeah. So, and I think that's the other thing I want to note too, is that all of these theories could be true. Yeah. But again, so I don't, I'm not gonna, I don't have an answer. I don't have a definitive sort of, this is just kind of an interesting thing. Like this is a podcast, this is what you're here for.<laugh> hear a, see a and away. So that brings me though to the second one in terms of like circadian rhythm, because mm-hmm<affirmative> the second view is that ADHD is primarily a temporal time related problem in that it's a, an inability of people with ADHD brains to keep track of time accurately mm-hmm<affirmative>. And just because clocks weren't invented in like the neolithic era or whenever the, like mm-hmm,<affirmative> just cuz clocks hadn't been invented at that point in human history doesn't mean that people weren't able to keep track of time in some ways. Yeah. Cause the sun still happened. Like sun dials have been around for, well a minute now we're talking about like, if we're talking about way back, I'm talking like when we were still walking the earth with Neanderthals. Yeah. So that would've probably been a little bit pre sundial. Pre sundial. Okay. Okay. Um, just cuz like they died out over 10,000 years ago. Yeah. And I wanna say the oldest Sundi is like 5,000, maybe thousand. It's see. Don't really have many ways to like have set direct times, but you're looking at the sun. Yeah. You're living day by day mm-hmm<affirmative> you're living with the seasons. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> you don't necessarily need an alarm clock mm-hmm<affirmative> when you just have a rhythm mm-hmm<affirmative> that has you set, right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:You're gonna listen to something, whether it's, you know, mm-hmm<affirmative> an alarm clock, burbs, a burbs or a candle with nails falling out of it or your own body.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Got a mm-hmm<affirmative> if nothing else does usually get people outta bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean I could tell the time by nothing else except I gotta take a dump at about 10 30. Yep. Almost on the dock.
Speaker 3:Yep. Morning love. They always feel very, very freeing,
Speaker 2:Very healing. Mm-hmm<affirmative> mm-hmm<affirmative>
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm<affirmative> so imagine you've gotten up rolled outta your MOS pad in the cave. Check the cave drawings. See what the news is around camp. I don't know. You walk out, do your business and think, Hmm, I got a probably late morning. So anyways, but imagine that someone with an ADHD brain mm-hmm<affirmative> who light and the circadian rhythms that are associated most commonly with human bodies don't apply to your body or brain mm-hmm<affirmative>. So not only are you the odd one out in the camp, you also can't sleep a lot of the time. However, this, in my opinion, would've been a good thing. Yeah. And in many experts, expert opinion is a good thing because it means that even if you have to, even if you're hungry, even if you're sleepy, you're not gonna finish working on that basket. You're weaving until it's finished. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and you get up every night in the middle of the night cuz you just can't sleep at that at that time. Mm-hmm<affirmative> that's great. It gives, it gives good old Frank<laugh> at the, you know, garden garden during third shift gives him a little rest. Yeah. So I think that those are things that make sense that at least it's good to have at least some of them. Yeah. Least a little, a little bit of brain worms. Yeah. But then you think about how socially we're very social creatures, humans mm-hmm<affirmative> and you know, I think about myself and several other people that I know who have ADHD or just neuro divergent in general mm-hmm<affirmative> who grew up feeling as though they were out of touch, annoying, unwanted. Like you couldn't do anything, right. No matter how hard you tried mm-hmm<affirmative> I imagine that they probably had that issue too at that time. Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so you think about like, God bless all of the little white boys who have been diagnosed with ADHD, but if you're sitting around the campfire, you know, learning those sweet, sweet oral traditions from your elders mm-hmm<affirmative> and little Robby down the line, just won't sit down and pay attention. Mm-hmm<affirmative> gets real annoying. And so mm-hmm,<affirmative> socially I'm sure. Right? That there is some level of like, I don't care if you get up in the middle of the night and do third shift for us to like you're, you're a lot<laugh> you know? And so I, I think that there's probably something to be said there too. And especially with the time the, the, the view, uh, sort of with like a temporal issue and having a problem, like understanding that you are physically in the world and you are unfortunately a prisoner to time as it marches on Uhhuh<affirmative>
Speaker 2:We
Speaker 3:All are. Yeah. But sometimes those differences don't just mean that you're helpful and can take over for the night. Watch. It might mean that you are late to the seasonal hunting, gathering with the local other nomadic groups. Mm-hmm<affirmative> that you trade with twice a year. Right. It means that you, you might be operating on a different timeline in terms of like where you think your life should be, because that's another thing is that people with ADHD do tend to be just slightly socially delayed than their peers of the same age. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> so you have to think this is all still happening. It's just a completely different culture. Yeah. And time. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and so I can see why there's about three to 4%, cuz it makes sense. It makes sense as to how it is now where neuro divergent people find each other because we can work it out together and everyone else is just kind of like, okay, great. Uh, so eugenics let's get going on that. Huh? I'm not wrong.
Speaker 2:No, you're not
Speaker 3:Not to say it like that. Yeah. People are like that. They're like, mm, your brain's different. Better to kill you better just cut this one out of the fabric mankind as it is. Uh,
Speaker 2:But on the flip side of that, I can imagine a situation in like a, a hunting gathering group where, you know, maybe all of the people who have become the typical age to like marry or partner mm-hmm<affirmative>, uh, mate, and have their own families. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, you know, most of the neurotypical people hit that. And then you have a handful of extra people in case you, you know, lose a couple of the younger ones to childbirth or to, you know, pick up the slack and gathering when half of the other people have babies on their hips, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, communal living mm-hmm<affirmative> big reason mm-hmm<affirmative> oh, a big reason that people with disabilities are still alive. Mm-hmm<affirmative> cause there were, there have always been people that care about everyone. Yeah. I think that's the other thing too. Right? The empathy we feel. Yeah. Empathy we're capable of feeling. So, so were our ancestors mm-hmm<affirmative> so I think that's a cool thing to think about too. Just like in connections, whatever. Absolutely. The third thing though. Yes. Because we've talked about looking at ADHD traits specifically in relation to time, we've talked about them specifically in relation to anxiety and fear mm-hmm<affirmative> and the third view comes at it more from a creativity place of mm-hmm<affirmative> this is really the only positive spin that I saw was the, like the fact that like there are positives to not being as in touch or in sync with, uh, a group, right. Timewise there, like there can be positives to having a survival based anxiety. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> that's I, I think that's, what's interesting, right. Is that it's like all of these experts are looking to figure out cuz it's it is a, it's a it's enough of a number and the variation of cultural yeah. Diversity with, within ADHD. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> like it's found in every part of the world mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so we know that it is like, oh, this human SP like the human species. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> because there are things like nose shape, eye shape, skin color, you know, things that develop and change as people live, lived and settled mm-hmm<affirmative> in certain areas of the world. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and then they continue to select with one another. And that's how you have like what races and ethnicities look like today. That's a very, very, very watered down version of that science. But there is a reason why like say a lot of people in cold regions have bigger noses mm-hmm<affirmative> because from an evolutionary standpoint, there's more time for the air to get from your, from the outside and into your lungs and with a longer nasal canal that warms the air up a little bit and makes it less harsh on your lungs when you're breathing in. I didn't know that. Yeah. That's one of my favorite facts. That's fun. So like, thinking about things like that, that like there, there's not always a reason that we can find mm-hmm<affirmative> for every part of the human body. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> like, there are a lot of parts of our bodies that we don't use anymore and, or not a lot, but like there are parts of our bodies that like we don't use and that we don't really know what the purpose is. Yeah. But sometimes we can see what the purpose would have been mm-hmm<affirmative> in the past. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and so anyways, I just think it's very fascinating to look at how humans develop. Yeah. But ADHD being three to 4% of the global population. Yeah. It is. It is everywhere. Yeah. Anywhere that there are people there is ADHD. And so that shows that that was a trait that was selected for even in the smallest amount. Yeah. From the beginning. Yeah. And continued to permeate all humanity to the point where it's three to 4% of the global population. Right. So I think a super cool to think about the fact that like, yeah, we're only three to 4% of the population. Like there's just a, a, a handful of us really. Yeah. But that is a high enough percentage to mean that these traits were selected for yeah. Right. Because if they hadn't been, it would not have been too hard to breed it out, basically. Mm-hmm<affirmative> um, and that's not like, again, this is all such a watered down explanation of how evolution and natural selection and like looking at like maladaptive traits versus like survival, like traits that will actually aid people in survival. Mm-hmm<affirmative> I just think it's cool to think about what connects us from back then to now. Yeah. And so the third view is much more creativity based mm-hmm<affirmative> and looks at the, the fact that people with ADHD brains often think and completely different patterns. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, it's like, you're not thinking inside or outside of the box, you're like opening a fourth dimension with like a sphere or something. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like there's, there's something to be said about that ingenuity that comes from a brain. Yeah. That isn't meant to work the same way as everyone else's. And so there's another theory that that is a huge reason why it is enough of a trait that like, you know, like you said, you have the extra people who are like inventing. Mm-hmm,<affirmative> helping out when, you know, they need to, but maybe weren't necessarily, always partnered up mm-hmm<affirmative> but enough of them were<laugh> enough of them were
Speaker 2:Enough of them. Were it kind of reminds me of that like phrase of like the way you look is proof that generations of your face have been love.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And like the idea of like, the way that we are now is proof that like generations of the way that we are, have been loved, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 3:No, it's it very, it's like to think about it's it's genuinely part of the reason that I got my masters in anthropology mm-hmm<affirmative> is because the whole field is so good in my experience anyways, for me personally, and with other anthropologists that I know mm-hmm<affirmative>, it is so good. At least at this day and age, historically anthropology, not a, not a stellar field, don't worry. Like I'm not trying to say that anthropology is the, be all end, all of how we should be looking at the world. I'm just saying for me, it was very helpful to have that empathy. Yeah. But more than that, it makes me feel so deeply connected. Mm-hmm<affirmative> beyond empathy, right? Yeah. It gets to that like common place of origin. Yeah. That I think is frankly, in this culture and society, especially here in the us is very much missing. And that, that is a trait that is commonly missing in our culture and society specifically. Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's some things that can be said for individualism, but it only gets you so far.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm<affirmative> and you know, individualism is like really cool until you are the one like slipping on a bath mat and falling in the shower mm-hmm<affirmative> or until you are the one who has aged to the point where your eyes aren't as good as they used to be, and you can't drive to get groceries. Mm-hmm<affirmative> independence is great until you can't be independent, which
Speaker 2:Happens to
Speaker 3:Most of us. Yeah. Pretty much all of us mm-hmm<affirmative> that you're not immune to needing people. Mm-hmm<affirmative> so jot that down. It has nothing to do with this anthropological lesson, but it is important, more important than like anything else we've said. I mean, it is. Yeah.<laugh> I just explained why it's relevant, but I, I don't know. I'm not like, yeah. I don't know. Anyways, do you have questions for me? I know that was like a very watered down sort of explanation of like those three main views on why ADHD has been selected for mm-hmm<affirmative> is it because we're anxious and wanna survive? Is it because, you know, sometimes it's useful to have someone who's never on time mm-hmm<affirmative> or, you know, was it because having an ADHD brain was actually seen as something to be revered yeah. And treasured, right. Or is it all three or is it none of them? We will never know. We literally won't know definitively. And that is a bummer. So, you know, if you like definitive answers, anthropology might not be the field for you.<laugh> but if you're like me and you hate committing to like that. It's awesome.
Speaker 2:Great. Hell
Speaker 3:Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. I just think it's cool that<laugh>, I don't, I think it's cool that there's people across multiple fields who are like, we know what ADHD sort of is, but we don't really know what it is totally. And we don't really know how it works, but yeah, let's take a good old guess and see if we can figure out why it was naturally selected for it, with all of this information. We clearly already have.
Speaker 2:Let's go ahead and give it the old post grad college try.
Speaker 3:Okay. To be fair anthropologists, just love to guess.
Speaker 2:I love that for you guys. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's great. Yeah. That's
Speaker 2:Great. Mm-hmm<affirmative> I think that, that was a very good summary of essentially if I'm summing it up correctly, like some of the leading ideas about how the traits of ADHD might have been like cultivated and passed on, were their value in terms of either anxiety or time or creativity, like those, the three of those things, having a benefit to the society that these people were in. Is that yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay. I think that is like the bare bones of it. Yes. Okay. Like granted were these academic articles over here, like a temporal relationship to time management and it's like, okay, just tell me that. Okay. All right. And like creativity, right. It's like ingenuity in the capacity for human invention and it's like, that's cool. Yep. Sounds dope. I have a podcast. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Creativity is one of those things that has always been so easy to quantify and define. I don't know why they, you know, had such an issue with it
Speaker 3:And especially because all of these, our ancestors are dead. We can't like, and it's not like they had a word for ADHD. We didn't have a word for ADHD till like the 19 hundreds. Mm-hmm<affirmative> so like, you know, it's not like we could go back in time even, and just be like, so who has ADHD in this Sierra caveman camp? And then how, you know, our ancestors are just like, cause we just appeared out of like a array of MIS you know, and like yeah. You know, so you can't really do that. Cuz a, it seems a little rude and like B you know, totally
Speaker 2:Against time travel ethics.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, and then you think about like you mix time, travel ethics with anthropological ethics, cuz you had like hunters, Thompson and listen. I know, I know we all love to love and love to hate hunters Thompson. But when it comes to his attempts, I call them attempts at anthropology and sociology by way of Gonzo, journalism, you know, a big reason that we have internal review boards now. Mm. Uh, you know, things like<laugh>, you know, you think about like fighting happened so that like the Stanford prison experiment could happen, you know, like Yeah. There's um, a rich history of anthropologists being the literal worst. Oh yeah. As in any field mm-hmm<affirmative> uh, that is derived from a Western academic perspective of whiteness and colonialism. That was so, you know, I think even this whole episode from an anthropological standpoint, take it all with a grain of salt, cuz this is just one way to look at the world and it is riddled with its own. Mm-hmm<affirmative> I do have a master's degree in it though. And I am pretty proud of that. Yeah. Cuz I did manage to do something. Right.
Speaker 2:You got a whole master's
Speaker 3:Degree. Yeah. So bang, bang, boom kick Yeah. I don't know if y'all have things you wanna add or ask or if there's things about that history that you would be more interested in me. Like putting in the work to maybe do some deeper digging there. Yeah. Like let us know, you know, like I I'm not against that.
Speaker 2:<laugh> yeah. Please let us know. I think that that's kind of a conversation that's been happening in the community. Yeah. On and off of like, I mean, I know I've seen the tweets floating around of like here's why like circumstantially, we can imagine that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like, or like here's
Speaker 2:That would be helpful.
Speaker 3:Like here's why like putting something on your hip genuinely is a thing that is like a generational movement. That is muscle memory. Mm-hmm<affirmative> like that is generational memory. Mm-hmm<affirmative> of learn remembering how to lift things up on your hip properly. It's very, it's interesting to see the way that humanity moves. Yeah. And it's connected like, sorry. I'm fine. Everything's fine.
Speaker 2:No, that's great. It's it's so true too. Cuz like you can't do that specific motion and like not feel connected to a Victorian washer woman somewhere.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No. Like I can't pick up like even my niece or my nephew and you know, just pop'em on my hip. I think about the fact that we don't necessarily learn how to hold babies and take care of children from studying or being taught about it. We learn those things because we watch our elders do it. Yeah. We watch our parents do it.
Speaker 2:We watch it happen to us. Watch it happen to the people who come after us. Like yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Like no one ever told me. Yeah. When you pick up a child, you're it's gonna be easiest if you pick them up and then put'em on your hip mm-hmm<affirmative> because they'll feel more comfortable and they'll have like a little ledge to sit on. If you've got big hips and
Speaker 2:In terms of your center of gravity, that makes sense as a place to brace mm-hmm<affirmative> weight like
Speaker 3:All around a better for your back and your arms and like it's like so, but no one, no one ever sat me down to tell me that. Yeah. It's just a thing like think about the things yeah. That you do. You think about people. This is, this is a left field example, but I've been thinking about it. Yeah. Thinking about like people with shy, bladders who can't in public<laugh> right. Like biologically anthropologically. There's a reason for that.
Speaker 2:<laugh> no, you're you're so right. This is such a valid example. I just love that we've had this conversation before. It's very recently you were sitting on the toilet, unable to pee. I
Speaker 3:Have such bad, like I have such bad toilet anxiety. It's like so stupid. It it's not even like a, cuz it's not logical. Like I I'll sit down on a toilet and I'm like, I literally have to pee so bad. And I'm like pushing. I'm like, come on, urethra, open'em on up. Come on. Be like, Mitski open it up. Like the gates of hell. We got some pistol at out. And my little Golin brain like on a subconscious level is like, I'm not absolutely positively sure that we are safe from danger in this exact moment. And so no, you cannot begin to pee until I have completely and fully deduced that there are no giant cats or little spiders or scorpions or anything. Nothing is going to hurt us while we're doing this. I
Speaker 2:Wonder if that's where the light very common fear of something swimming up through the toilet and biting your comes from,
Speaker 3:I think that might specifically be Stephen King.
Speaker 2:Oh really?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, cuz there's that one with the MOS that's red and is that I can't remember which one that is. I donunno, I haven't, I haven't been into Stephen Kagan. Who are you? I'm just gonna, it's gonna bother me if I don't. No,
Speaker 2:That's fair. Also the very specific to us situational irony of the fact that even if you are alone, our toilet is apparently not been safe to sit on for a while.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Oh
Speaker 2:One's a fun
Speaker 3:One. Dream catcher. That's a thing in dream catcher. Stephen King's story.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. Like,
Speaker 3:Except for like it's like a red MOS and then someone like out, like what a monster thing. It's like very alien, but also like it's very strange. I haven't, I haven't like yeah. Anyways,
Speaker 2:Anyways. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think a similar fear. Yeah. Of swimming in water and a fear of something coming up from beneath you mm-hmm<affirmative> right. Yeah. That's another point for this theory of like the way that biologically, there are some physical things mm-hmm<affirmative> that what, no matter how technologically advanced our society is no matter how emotionally mature and just so cool and smart. You are bud. You are not immune to feeling a little calmer when you have gold waters flashing on your face. Like<laugh> you are not immune to the mamalian guiding response. Yeah. You, you are. You're not immune. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And thank God for that. It's one of my favorite parts of being alive.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No God the, oh, putting my face in some water. It's just mm-hmm<affirmative> so good. So yeah. You know, take all this with a grain of salt. This has just given y'all a little glimpse into my field of study and how stupid it is.
Speaker 2:No, that was great.
Speaker 3:Thank you. That's very kind. I recognize you have to say that. Uh, I, I do.
Speaker 2:I don't we've been on very, we've said very mean things to each other on this podcast.
Speaker 3:No, I know, but like not when we're ever actually being sincere, that's fair.<laugh> like cuz we're actually friends and Gar care very much for each other, you know? So love you bro. Love you bro. Yeah, you're a.<laugh>
Speaker 2:Love
Speaker 3:You. Anyways. Thanks for listening. Uh, I don't know. Sometimes I just get really caught up in the information I'm saying, and I don't actually know if it's being delivered in a way that's palatable, enjoyable or even understandable. So it's cool that you somehow got something from that and I hope dear audience that you do too.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for like doing all of the research and figuring this out and like explaining it.
Speaker 3:I don't thank you like this when you do it.
Speaker 2:I know I'm showing you up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you super are.<laugh> I?
Speaker 2:No, I'm, I'm just like I, I learned something new and I think that since that conversation has been kind of happening in the ADHD community of the origins of this and why and like how it could be useful. Cause I think that that's something that's kind of soothing to think about as well of when you feel really out of sorts in our world, because you talked about how ADHD is maladaptive to capitalism. Yeah. Um,<laugh>
Speaker 3:I should
Speaker 2:Say it does help and it is soothing and kind of affirming to think about a, this sense of like there's still value in it. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and usefulness. But also I, you know, I think it's worth mentioning, you know, the kind of colloquial story that's gone around about, I don't remember who it was, but somebody saying like the first sign of humanity or civilization was a healed, broken leg. Like have you heard that? Yeah. Yeah. And that idea of like, we just keep people around because we love them and we love having them in our communities. Mm-hmm<affirmative> but I, I think that it is, you know, like you said, it's affirming to you to be a part of anthropology because of that connection. Like mm-hmm<affirmative> I think that that's, that feels good for all of us. Mm-hmm<affirmative> especially when you feel excluded by the way that society is now. Yeah,
Speaker 3:Exactly. Yeah. And you know, if you have tattoos, you always got UIE. That's
Speaker 2:True.
Speaker 3:You, if you also, if you dunno who UCI the Iceman is, I feel like most of us learned about him in like biology in like 10th grade. Right. But
Speaker 2:I feel like I didn't learn about UY until I listened to the radio lab episode, but okay. I also only did half school, like my last two years of high school. So I probably missed a fair amount of stuff. Well,
Speaker 3:That's so fair. I just, again was a big nerd and into archeology from a very young age.
Speaker 2:We'll share some links.
Speaker 3:We'll
Speaker 2:We'll pop some UIE. Good, good UIE content on it.
Speaker 3:Genuinely is just really cool. Cuz he is the oldest intact.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Human remains. Yeah. That we have ever found. And he's uh, as well preserved as he can be. Mm-hmm<affirmative> um, we've also like, this is, this is really interesting, right? Like the best places for dead bodies to remain completely intact is like frozen in ice. Mm-hmm<affirmative> you know, which we all know.
Speaker 2:We're great for captain America
Speaker 3:Looking at you, Walt. And uh<laugh> Who Disney? What? Because he's got a cryogenically frozen head in the middle of like what? That's one of those big theories, like one of those big conspiracy theories that Walt Disney's head is cryogenically frozen and they're just waiting to pop it back on to whatever body thing that can hold a human brain and soul. I don't know what, I don't know if that's real, but people joke about it. People talk about it. Oh my God. No one can prove that his head isn't cryogenically frozen and like in the locked vault, along with like the original VCR version of the black Coldron or some like, you know,
Speaker 2:That's another new thing I learned today. Cuz I don't think I've ever heard about
Speaker 3:That. The black Coldron oh,
Speaker 2:Well Disney's cryogenically. Frozen head.
Speaker 3:Okay. Maybe I'm insane. Like maybe I'm genuinely losing it. Maybe I'm from another timeline and I somehow jumped and that's not a thing here, but I feel like it's a thing, right? I can't say like, no there's no one to me. You guys have, you had to
Speaker 2:You Book called barring bears.
Speaker 3:Shut the up. Shut the up. Shut the up. So anyways, I know that you can't respond to me right now because you won't be hearing this until several days after this conversation is taking place, but back me up. Okay. Right. Like please someone back me up and let me know that that's a thing that people theorize, right? Yeah. Let us
Speaker 2:Let us know.
Speaker 3:The Walt Disney's head is cryogenically frozen in, in a locked vault at Disney and just waiting for the right time to come back. Be as good old racist self. Yeah. But yeah. So frozen mm-hmm<affirmative> or in BOS.
Speaker 2:Oh, I knew that
Speaker 3:One. Yeah. We got some Bo mans. We
Speaker 2:Got some Bo butter too.
Speaker 3:Yeah. We've got like that has been kept in the bog. Yeah. In the pee mm-hmm<affirmative> in the MOS in the urrp, in the slur because that is so thick and so gross that it just literally kept oxygen from getting into bodies. BOS are no joke. Mm-hmm<affirmative> I know quick sand is not as big of a fear, but bogs, but bogs there's quick mud<laugh> there's not just quick sand there's quick mud<laugh> um, next thing you know, you'll be on some weird little nerdy scientists table as they're categorizing all your tattoos.
Speaker 2:So get some cool on kids.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's what I always say. It's my reason for getting tattoos. Yeah. So whenever Rob robs my grave, they still know that they're robbing someone. Cool. Yeah. So yeah. You know, anyways, uh, let's move on from this rather more bed point of the conversation. We always make a point to hop on over to the dopamine trampoline. It's a place where we each get to talk about something that is giving our brain dopamine or gave our brain dopamine. Mm-hmm<affirmative> something that's just making us happy. Maybe a hyper fixation, maybe just like a TV show we've been vibing on. And so, you know, this week, uh, I can hop on up there. Yeah. Jump on over, jump on up their first first thing. Uh, and my DT this week is, uh, hold on. Okay. Um, the thing that is giving me Domine right now as we're recording this episode uh harto oh, I'm sure you know of it, at least in the us and north America generally, uh Ritos is a brand of soft drink that was founded in 1950. Oh. By Don Francisco hill in Mexico. Um, and now it's owned, uh, by like a big company called Nova max, which is just like a big, like, you know, how big companies kind of just do a lot of stuff now. Yeah. Where it's like Disney has oil rigs. Interesting. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and you're somehow you look at the connection and you're like, I guess they do. And it's really weird. So I think it's that kind of thing, but it was founded in 1950 and it's usually in glass bottles, but sometimes in plastic bottles and usually about 16 ounces, 17 ounces per bottle
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm<affirmative> like very classic glass, silhouette mm-hmm
Speaker 3:<affirmative> and three flavors that you usually see are like, uh, grapefruit, lime and Mandarin orange. Um, but they have a lot of other flavors, like I'm drinking a fruit punch one right now. Um, but it is, it's just good. It's just a tasty Mexican soda that is light and refreshing and tastes so good with tacos specifically from flash taco in Chicago. I just got that for lunch the other day. Oh yeah. Yeah. So it just hits
Speaker 2:So it's
Speaker 3:So good. So good. And so that's really, what's like bringing me dopamine is that throughout this episode, as we've been recording, I've been able to take a couple little breaks and sip on some delicious fruit pantos and I can't imagine anything that could be giving me more dopamine in this moment, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I grew up drinking them too. They always had them at WinCo, uh, which is the best grocery store in the world, dopamine trampoline for another day. My favorite flavor was always the tamed ones. Mm-hmm<affirmative> um, but they're all good. Yeah. They're all good.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Can't go wrong. And if you haven't tried it because you're not in north America, I'm assuming would be the only reason that you haven't. Yeah. Uh, I hope that you can soon. Yeah. Put your hands on a bottle. Mm-hmm<affirmative> is this it's just nice. It's just a tasty soda.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, drinking soda out of a glass bottle is already an elevated experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah. God, to your way to drink. So what's yours.
Speaker 2:So mine is kind of topically relevant to the conversation that we've been having. Cuz I know you mentioned Bo bodies and
Speaker 3:Okay. I'm worried now
Speaker 2:You are familiar with the Irish musician Hozier, correct? Oh yeah. Yeah. So not just Hozier, although I love his music. I am a big fan of that. Seen him in concert and he is a wonderfully talented musician. Like somebody who legitimately is just like very skilled and I respect that
Speaker 3:And so tall and
Speaker 2:So tall. Like
Speaker 3:You okay up there?
Speaker 2:I hope so. I sincerely hope so.
Speaker 3:Mr. Mr. Andrew, are you okay up there?
Speaker 2:I feel like people joke about him being the crypted celebrity. And I feel like that holds true. Not because of the whole, like he's like a forest spirit thing, but because I feel like I know so many people who like have met him in a really weird random experience or like know somebody who knows him or like really random connections. And I'm just like, what do you do? Or people in your life? Well,
Speaker 3:Like people also just see him around Dublin. Yeah. Like all the time. Yeah. Like getting on the bus, get a coffee. Yeah. He's just there. Which makes sense. You you're allowed to live your life, sir. But yeah. You're so tall and you're moving amongst the rest of us being so tall. And you don't do you not expect people to yeah. Notice, I don't know. He's so tall.
Speaker 2:He's an extremely tall man.
Speaker 3:I don't know what I would do if I met someone that well, no, I guess I do know what I'd do if I met people like that tall. Cause I have before. It's not that I haven't met that tall people. Just like, I don't know. Anyways, this is, this is nothing<laugh> tell me more.
Speaker 2:So in this specific dopamine trampoline, it's not just Hozier. It's specifically the video that he accidentally posted on Instagram.
Speaker 3:<laugh>
Speaker 2:Where he's
Speaker 3:Oh no. Wait the handsome Squidward one. Yeah. Yes. Oh no. Oh, what a delightful. Oh good. Okay. Sorry. Keep going. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Like, well<laugh>, we'll post a link to it. So if you have not yet experienced this, you can, but it's shows you're with like an Instagram filter making the most like stereotypical boy face.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You know the Instagram filter that people called, like the handsome squid word filter mm-hmm<affirmative> cause it made you have like a really big square masculine jaw and like made your eyebrows like look really funky. Yeah. And like, of course like makes your eyes a little bigger. Like all the filters do mm-hmm<affirmative> but like he had that filter on, but then he did the thing where he like rubs his hand across his mouth. Like, boy, like thumb across the bottom lip. He was like, God, moving his head in a serpentine motion. Like I'm, I'm sorry that I'm taking over Jordan's DT apparently. And just doing that very, very aggressively detailed word picture, but I really need you all in the audience to know what this video means. Not just to Jordan, but to me as well, because
Speaker 2:The description of it is also bringing me dopamine. So it's very
Speaker 3:Appropriate.<laugh> it's also so weird cuz he's like our age, like isn't he like in his late twenties or
Speaker 2:Something, have no idea. And it's
Speaker 3:Like, this could have been one of our friends or family members.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But it's not, it's internationally renowned musician, Andrew Hozier burn. Yeah. And it's, it's delightful in so many ways. Like just on the surface from the explanation of it. It's funny. Yeah. But also the fact that it was posted accidentally mm-hmm<affirmative> um, and I, you know, I don't like anybody's like privacy being violated or like sharing something they didn't wanna share. But I think it's the circumstance that like out of anything a celebrity could have like accidentally put on the internet. That's
Speaker 3:Like the funniest thing. Funny.
Speaker 2:And, and harmless, harmless, you know, it's not like it was nudes or like something like racist
Speaker 3:Or
Speaker 2:Something like that. It was just
Speaker 3:What he said. He like, had meant to send it to a group chat with his friend was like, this was just
Speaker 2:For the lads
Speaker 3:And like was for everybody and like blessed the people who screen recorded immediately, or else we wouldn't have seen it cuz he took it down pretty quick. Yeah. But then he posted the apology video<laugh> which I feel like made it even better. Cuz it's like the embarrassment.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But like, again that, that was such a mild mm-hmm<affirmative> innocuous, just goofy little thing that he made a whole apology
Speaker 3:Video. Yep. So just talking funny,
Speaker 2:Like full on so many levels
Speaker 3:<laugh> he really needed us to know that he's not actually a boy
Speaker 2:And you know what? I believe it. I don't follow a whole lot of celebrities or invest myself in their personas, but there's a unique, like very genuine piece of heart in that entire situation. Yeah. That never fails to delight
Speaker 3:Me. It is so good. It's so Funny. If for some reason it gets around, there is a podcast episode that talks specifically about this video that you posted, sir. Mr. Burn. Um,
Speaker 2:Thank you. Uh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:Sorry. Sorry. We're making fun of you. I know we've never met. We still are gonna continue to make fun of you<laugh> and you know, maybe, you know, in a, in a loving way,
Speaker 2:In a very, in a
Speaker 3:Respectful way. Yeah. In a respectful way, but also like not too respectful, cuz it was funny when you used a Squidward filter and like pretended to be a boy. Like that was genuinely one of the funniest things you could have done. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2:<affirmative> mm-hmm<affirmative>
Speaker 3:Thank
Speaker 2:You so many moving parts. Do it. That just made it delightful. If you want an apology pint. Next time I am in Dublin, I will happily oblige call us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you got,
Speaker 2:Yeah. You can
Speaker 3:Tell about, you wanna talk about ADHD to, Hey, Hey people you want, you want this podcast to be better?
Speaker 2:Get hoer
Speaker 3:On it. Get Hosier on it.
Speaker 2:You
Speaker 3:Know what to do internet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hashtag Hozier learns park core. Make it trend
Speaker 3:Hozier learns park core.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right.
Speaker 3:We don't know how to do parkour so we can't teach'em but we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:But here's the thing I think that the, the mental image of that is maybe maybe enough for it to game traction and people will wanna know what's this all about true.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm<affirmative> he's so tall. Mm-hmm<affirmative> that would look maybe a little, okay. Yeah. No you just like big foot running and jumping from building to building and Dublin. Yeah. Now I kind of need it. Yeah. I give us call. Yeah. Well let's like up. Yeah. That's amazing. Thank you. Sorry. I kind of co-opted it, but I did not know you were bringing that and I'm so happy you did. It is very fun. I feel like when one or both of us have dopamine trampolines that the other one is like, Hey me too.
Speaker 2:I know that there's a list somewhere of things that we've meant to do as like a joint. Yeah mm-hmm<affirmative> but when they happen spontaneously, that's just special.
Speaker 3:It's just like besty
Speaker 2:Besties. We're so connected. We're
Speaker 3:So
Speaker 2:Connected. All right. Let's like end this episode.
Speaker 3:Oh please.
Speaker 2:This has been, or Lauren popcorn from wholehearted production company.
Speaker 3:You can find us on Spotify, apple podcast, Stitcher, you know, anywhere that cool people find their podcasts
Speaker 2:Special. Thanks to Keisha Rito for our cover art design. You can find her at pet hop that's P E T a L H O P on Instagram and Twitter and et sea. Get some cool stickers.
Speaker 3:Yay. Thank you. As well too, Tom Rosenthal for our intro and outro, there is a dark place off of the album. Keep a private room behind the shop.
Speaker 2:You can follow us on the SOC needs we are at or learn parkour on Twitter. We are at, we are WPC and stands for wholehearted production company on Instagram and we wpc.com.
Speaker 3:You can find links to all that as well as links to sources, transcripts, and a specific video that you know was technically deleted. So you can pretend it's unseen footage. I don't know, but we'll put those links in our episode description. We
Speaker 2:Sure will. If you enjoy this podcast and want to hear more now is a great time to follow or subscribe, click that. Give me more of this link. And if you wanna start a podcast of your own click, our buzz sprout affiliate link in you guessed it. The episode description, you get a great website to host your podcast, access to tons of their actually like very helpful resources. Your show is listed in every major podcast platform, which makes life a lot easier than filling out so many forms online. And the company of over a hundred thousand podcasters already using buzz sprout. Plus we get a little something, some to keep the lights on and you get to know that you help support an indie show.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You could also support the show by sharing it with, uh, friends, enemies, lovers,
Speaker 2:Favorite musicians.
Speaker 3:Yes. Hmm. That's an idea. Or if you're feeling super spicy, you could donate straight to our COFI, which you can find a link to in our Twitter or, uh, Instagram.
Speaker 2:You sure can. Uh, every little bit helps and we appreciate y'all a lot,
Speaker 3:So much.
Speaker 2:I'm Jordan and I'm L and this has been or learn parkour. We'll see you in two weeks. Wait,
Speaker 3:Sorry. That's um, sorry. And I'm Matt.
Speaker 4:Bye. You.
