On this episode of Or, Learn Parkour, Jordan and Sylvie chat about good sea slugs, muppet adaptions with horrifying consequences, and also how being a youngest sibling vs oldest sibling affects ADHD.
Thanks for listening!
CW/TW: Mental health, ADHD, explicit language, loud noises, yelling, rambling, singing, mouth noises, coughing, garbled speech, allusion to sex, discussion of food & eating habits
Credits:
Cover art by: Krizia Perito
Theme: There Is A Dark Place
Socials:
Mental Health Resources:
thelovelandfoundation.org
opencounseling.com
Sources:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29720025/
On this episode of Or, Learn Parkour, Jordan and Sylvie chat about good sea slugs, muppet adaptions with horrifying consequences, and also how being a youngest sibling vs oldest sibling affects ADHD.
Thanks for listening!
CW/TW: Mental health, ADHD, explicit language, loud noises, yelling, rambling, singing, mouth noises, coughing, garbled speech, allusion to sex, discussion of food & eating habits
Credits:
Cover art by: Krizia Perito
Theme: There Is A Dark Place
Socials:
Mental Health Resources:
thelovelandfoundation.org
opencounseling.com
Sources:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29720025/
There is a dark place, but I'm not going. No, no, no, no. My way there is a dark place, but I'm not going. No, no, no. My way.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Jordan and I'm not Lex, but this is still or learn park war. And it's still a podcast about ADHD done by two people who have ADHD. We still do. Yeah, just a little quick, just a, you know, throw away housekeeping note here.<laugh> uh, I am going through a name change mostly because the person who's behind the company swam Moton is, uh, the worst and has made everyone with my name. My current name, uh, made their lives a lot worse. So, uh, so anyways, so I'm gonna start going by Sylvia now. So you can refer to me as such fewer family or old friends from like real life, you know, whatever floats your boat. But if you're anyone else it's Sylvie now it's Sylvie. Now everyone clear, everyone clear you best be Sylvie. Sylvie. Yeah. So, uh, that's really it though. You know, same person, different name to make my life easier. There you go. And cuz it's, if you know me, you know that I've always wanted to have a different name. It's a dope name and this is a good name. And I like it.<laugh> and it wasn't a dare from college<laugh> it was my choice. So we're hoping this one will stick. Were your, your other names dares from college? Bambi. That was a dare. I went by bamb for four years on a dare. I did not know that it was a dare mm-hmm<affirmative> it was a dare. And the name was picked for me. That's not a bad one for a dare. Yeah, no, I think it came down to like Mac and Bambi. Mm. And yeah. And I've learned from that experience that I am a lot better at hearing people say my name when it has the E sound at the end. It's very good. I like the E at the end, as I demonstrated earlier, it's very good to just yell your name annoyingly and bother you. Yeah. I mean, I, I would expect nothing less. Oh good. You know what I mean? Like if you didn't on the same page there, if you didn't like, then it wouldn't feel like you really embraced it, you know? Oh, I'm embracing it. Oh yeah, no, no. That's what I'm saying. Like you definitely are. And I love that<laugh> but if you didn't feel free to make fun of me, then there would be something drastically, horribly dreadfully wrong. That's what I'm here for. It's just, just dunking. The thing that I was gonna say though, is that Mac Bambi
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Sounds like some sort of Venice and burger at a gastro pub.
Speaker 2:Wow. Wow. I mean, that was so accurate. Like it physically pains me a little bit. Like I can't go from like you're right.
Speaker 3:You're right. I'm the person who should be ashamed though, that I'm that in tune with the gastro pub vibes,
Speaker 2:The gastro pub scene. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so as you can see, we're still the same two dumb dumbs who bring this for brains podcast into your E space, into your space, into your brain, into your, hopefully I was gonna say into the, into your, into your, what I was gonna say into your holes, but I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it that way. So you see why I was so you see, so you see why I did not directly say that you see that. I would only say that when prompted from you, see, we all witness that I did say I'm not going, like, that's not what I, I decided against it, but I let you in on it because this is also a comedy podcast, allegedly<laugh> so, so buckle up because this week we are doing one of the types of episodes where we talk about our own personal experience. We sure are click it or ticket baby. Yeah. No. And I'm sure a lot of you who partake in the experience of our show or learn parkour. I'm sure that you think that we're just always being very vulnerable cuz you know, we do just share a lot, but it's, that's the thing. We both just kind of overshare and it's fun. And apparently you all get, enjoy him out of it.
Speaker 3:Is that an ADHD symptom?<laugh> keeping it on brand on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah,
Speaker 3:My boss this morning uhoh asked me, so. Okay. So I had to share a presentation with my company and had kind of made some jokes about why. Yes. I would hope that I'm good at presenting. I did get a theater degree. So this morning they were like, are you getting that theater degree? Ready? Are you doing your vocal warmups? And my boss was like, are you a musical theater person?
Speaker 2:What'd you say? Oh God, no, what? You can no,
Speaker 3:You know like a liar.
Speaker 2:Oh your response was, oh God, no. Yes. Okay. Okay.<laugh> I was like, are you telling me no, start this story. And then yes. Say,
Speaker 3:You, you want the
Speaker 2:End of it? I was like, clearly you're a musical theater kid and not an improv theater kid because that was the worst. Yes. And I've ever heard, but you did. You did. That's what I'm saying. Like you did. So everything I said was like, if you know if then yes. Okay. We need to not on the same page. So yeah.<laugh> so tell me, okay, so you lied, you did lie then
Speaker 3:I told the truth under imaginary circumstances.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay. That's super fair.<laugh> um, wait,
Speaker 3:So what, why would they ask you? I bet they're onto you. I think that I had said something about vocal warmups. Okay. I didn't
Speaker 2:Start it. It's only a matter of time. What if they, what if they have an office karaoke night? What then? What are you gonna do then?
Speaker 3:I'm gonna um, yeah. I'm gonna pray that day. Doesn't happen anytime soon. Mm-hmm<affirmative> yeah.
Speaker 2:Fingers crossed for your sake.
Speaker 3:I yeah. Yeah. I don't think I can hold my inner Patrick stump back. No.
Speaker 2:And, and you shouldn't<laugh> to clarify, but in terms of hiding it. Yeah. What?
Speaker 3:Oh, bummer.
Speaker 2:It's a
Speaker 3:Real bumpy. A Buoni pizza. Sure is. I mean to clarify, obviously I did get a theater degree. I do theater. I love doing it. I love the people that I get to work with. I respect the form, but I'd made a NATO joke in the group chat like a day before. So I was already on thin ice. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2:<affirmative> mm-hmm<affirmative> now was this the day before or after you saw the language from Dr. Who in a logo search or something and you had to fight back saying something about it, cuz you didn't want to tell on yourself. Those
Speaker 3:Are all in the nearby days to each other. Mm-hmm<affirmative> yes mm-hmm<affirmative> mm-hmm<affirmative> mm-hmm
Speaker 2:<affirmative> give me the silent treatment. Classic oldest sibling<laugh> You're
Speaker 3:Welcome. Such a great segue. You're welcome. Thank you Sylvie.
Speaker 2:Anytime. See new name, same.<laugh>
Speaker 3:It's gonna be your Christmas present. And it's just a shirt that says that
Speaker 2:You know that I really just want a friendship necklace that says get up, go as the design of
Speaker 3:One of the best idea I have ever heard in my life
Speaker 2:Credit where credit is due, our friend KA KA designed some very good friendship necklaces that really left us feeling inspired is what I'll
Speaker 3:Say unparalleled. Unparalleled. I was literally crying tears out of my eyes at be holding that majesty.
Speaker 2:Yes. Oh, because you know what friendship necklaces say? When it says get up, go. When you separate them,
Speaker 3:Get, go up
Speaker 2:<laugh> can you imagine, can you imagine being able to wear that around with your besties? Maybe get a few phrases in piece. You
Speaker 3:Got a big group. You got get up, go. You got um, what would some other phrases be? Yeah,
Speaker 2:No. I said it realizing that then I would have to come up with ideas that were funnier or equal and on par to what Cal's idea was. And I don't think I can under this pressure. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Nothing's gonna beat that. I will say maybe in the top five. Oh different colors. Oh, oh, different colors is good. Get some glitter in there. It's an option. Sorry. What were you say? Buoni pizza. That's
Speaker 2:Really big for wait is the, is that one shaped like too? Oh, I
Speaker 3:Imagined it was like the, I've seen ones where it's like a whole pizza when they're together and then it's four of them. So if you have a big group, like you were saying,
Speaker 2:I see. Yeah. So you could tailor it. Yes.
Speaker 3:Oh. So if you have, if you are like just killing the game at adulting and far and above most other millennials, we net one have three other friends. That's the necklace for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Huh.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 2:Would you want, see, I was imagine name with like pizza best friend necklace. My first thought was like the slice of pizza and then the like trunk of cheese and pepperoni that inevitably got stuck to another piece and kind of get, got slid off and kind of gets cough. You know, I was like kinda lump and I'm like, well, how do you make that look cute? But I'm like, oh, someone will find a way, but no, the slice thing, you know, it's that's
Speaker 3:Cool too. The bonus one is just like the little plastic table in the middle of the pizza.<laugh>
Speaker 2:<laugh> yeah, actually though, now that I'm thinking of like option two bonus. Okay. But with the pizza set Uhhuh, a little pepper chin. Oh
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's very good.
Speaker 2:I would now I just kind of want a little pepper, a little
Speaker 3:Pepper necklace, a little pepper chin necklace. Yeah. Well maybe cute. Christmas is coming up. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We'll see if I have so many necklaces. I do not need more, but how cute though? I'd be very, oh, I would. Oh, actually though I want to, at some point get like a tattoo, like of a pepper genie. No like a throwaway tattoo of like a pepper Uhhuh and make it like a tiny tattoo so that God it. If people ask me God, if I'm cold, I hate you so much. I can just say, oh, well I'm a tiny pepper. And they'll say what? Um, or if they've heard the joke before they'll I quit, the podcast will murder me and cold blood right on there. Right there on, on set. That's not, that's not how life works.<laugh> it's not on set. It might be. It might be. But
Speaker 3:You know, and then you'll say, what Sophie, what will you say?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm a tiny pepper. You know, like I'm a little chilly.
Speaker 3:This has Ben Orland hardcore by wholehearted production company.<laugh> You can find us on Spotify.
Speaker 2:Stop. No, wait, listen, listen, listen, listen. I'm listening. See, I'm drawing the attention all to classic youngest sibling behavior. What are we talking about this week? Cause we still have not introduced it.<laugh>
Speaker 3:You've given us two gave us, gave,
Speaker 2:Gave it to me. You gave,
Speaker 3:You gave it me two great S segues. So this week we are talking about ADHD and birth or order. Yeah. Uh, and likes said, this was going to be a little bit more of a discussion. We're gonna share our experiences in a couple tidbits episode because we wondered, especially, you know, I got to hang out with your family over the weekend and see you hang out with them, which you know, I don't see a whole lot. And I know you've met my family and we have some similarities in our family dynamic, but some differences because as most of you probably already know, or won't be surprised to find out Sylvia is a youngest sibling and I'm oldest sibling. No way. Right.
Speaker 2:Wow. Yeah. I what,
Speaker 3:Yeah. What?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So we were curious about
Speaker 2:Where blowing my mind.<laugh> I don't know what this character is.
Speaker 3:Woo. I'm glad do you follow up? Cause I was about to say something
Speaker 2:Also about just like what, what, who is this? Like who is this person that has inhabited you at this point? Sylvia? Like, I feel like
Speaker 3:It's a, like a very supportive classmate that you're not actually friends with when you're kind of eating in a class presentation.
Speaker 2:Yeah.<laugh> yeah. I was imagining like, you know, that like kind of coded as not very smart sort of cheerleader, trope, character. Mm. And most like high school setting and college setting mm-hmm<affirmative> sort of shows or movies. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, I'm imagining like that person, but they're actually like super, super chill. They just kinda like,
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like you think that they're kind of dumb and mean cuz they're a cheerleader and then they have that like last scene in the movie where they're like helping them with their mouth
Speaker 2:Homework or something. Yeah. Or like, like I'm imagining like in this specific situation, like you're in the bathroom, in the public bathroom at the school or whatever, mm-hmm<affirmative> in this, I don't sort of movie I'm writing in my head right now. Tell me, bear with me, everybody bearing. It's a bear. It's a very sick sounding bear. I'm sorry.<laugh> but I'm imagining, they're like in a bathroom mm-hmm<affirmative> and like the main character and the best friend are like having like a heart to heart sort of talk, you know, it's very serious or whatever. And then like about like near the end mm-hmm<affirmative> then this cheerleader comes out of this stall and this like drops some sort of wise. Yeah. Like it sounds like maybe you need to like prioritize what you want and like, think about your future, you know? Like what uplifts you also? Sorry, I was ease dropping, but I, I was pooping before you got in here. So I wasn't gonna just like stop<laugh> and then she washes her hands and leaves. I'm very
Speaker 3:Invested in this character now. Yeah. I feel like it's like Elwood is stoner cousin.
Speaker 2:Yeah.<laugh><laugh> yeah, yeah. It is. Uh,
Speaker 3:Which I heard that they're making a third one.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But I feel like we get that news every couple of years of like, is there gonna be a third legally blonde? And like I hope, yes. I hope it's real. I do too. But I also am hesitant because I've had my heart broken before, you know? Yeah. And it's just like, it can be really hard.
Speaker 3:Open yourself back up after
Speaker 2:That thing. When, you know, you, you just, you lose, you lose what, uh, you love
Speaker 3:Most. And there's just like a part of that spark that you can't get<laugh>
Speaker 2:Sweet mercy. Okay. So birth or, oh yeah. Rumored to have some influence on the way that people behave and are raised. Yeah. That like, that is actually a sort of school of thought and like study people do observe the differences between oldest children, youngest children, middle children, only children, children of like big families where there's middle siblings and whatever. Yeah. And so like, we're not really gonna talk about that cuz you probably have heard some something about it. Yeah. Yeah. No. And ADHD is genetic. So that's our, um, little attempt at making this topical. I mean it is topical, but like, yeah. And
Speaker 3:I think, you know, the questions that I was sort of curious about that I'll pose to you now mm-hmm<affirmative> because that's what we're gonna do this episode mm-hmm<affirmative> is like in the way that being a youngest sibling has affected your behavior, how would you say that that maybe affects the way that you experienced your ADHD now or may have experienced your ADHD when you were young? Would you say that that family dynamic changed your experience, getting a diagnosis? Like things like that?
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm<affirmative> mm-hmm<affirmative> yeah. Well, I mean like, and from, okay. Just like for some context and from sort of to explain where I'm coming from. Yeah. Like Jordan said, I am the youngest of three and I am like a lot younger than my siblings. Like they're like eight and 12 years older than me. So I have like kind of an interesting situation of like my formative developmental years as like a child were as a youngest child. But like by the time I was like hitting like puberty and onward, I was like basically an only child because my siblings moved out, went to college, did their own stuff, you know, mm-hmm<affirmative> so it was a very different dynamic of like going through the teenage developmental years as an only child, but growing up as the youngest child, cuz I think that I have some traits of like both an only child and the youngest child. Yeah. And the good ones too. Like I know like I feel like I, but the stereotypes there mm-hmm<affirmative> are, well, I guess I would, I would love to hear what you, what your idea of the stereotype of like a youngest child or an only child. They, they do overlap a lot. Um, yeah. This is definitely putting you on the spot. I wanna hear what say in terms
Speaker 3:Of stereotypes yeah. Of those general.
Speaker 2:Cause I think that's also helpful to be like here's sort of what is assumed yeah. In terms of how youngest siblings behave and then how that might have differed because of ADHD. Yeah. Is that helpful to know that that's where I'm going with this.
Speaker 3:Great. Okay, great. Uh, so I guess like the first stereotype that comes to mind, uh, is like kind of the kid who gets away with everything. So that's one<laugh> that looked Withing. It was like equal parts and eating.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And what about it?
Speaker 3:<laugh> also, I feel like there's this a stereotype of being like a little bit more emotionally direct of just being like I'm feeling this and you're all gonna know about it. Mm. I mean, in contrast with being an older child, the perception is like, you know, I'm going to lock that down. Mm-hmm<affirmative> emotions wise. Mm-hmm<affirmative> mm-hmm<affirmative> so, you know, being like maybe a little more emotionally direct and more, uh, vocal about your needs mm-hmm<affirmative> did I miss any
Speaker 2:Spoiled? I think spoiled would be the last one. Yeah. Which like I say that, because I think that there are a lot of negative perceptions that are usually, I would say accurate in my experience. You said it well, of course. I of course just the record.
Speaker 3:Of course I am
Speaker 2:<laugh> of course I am. I'm the baby of my family. And I get like, I recognize, I know my place. I understand my role at the same time. I, I always take the middle hump in the backseat. Mm. Like that's not a thing that happens anymore, but like, you know, but yeah, there are, there are several things that I will say. People sometimes forget that when you're the youngest, you
Speaker 3:Have to sacrifice so much. Well,
Speaker 2:You, you have no one else to bully because it all trickles down to you<laugh> so you just get bullied by everybody and you don't have one else to bully. And so that's where it kind of comes with like this heartiness of like<laugh> you can't kill me in a way that matters. Like<laugh> that sort of energy is definitely some youngest sibling energy, at least for me.
Speaker 3:No, that's fair. I guess on the flip side, it's your turn now, what would you say the stereotypes of an eldest child would be
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm<affirmative> like responsible in and more rule abiding or I feel like there's two different types of oldest siblings. Right? There's the type that is like, okay. So I'm the one who has to just sort of be in charge because my parents have a lot on their plate and I need to behave as best as I can to make their lives easier. And to make everyone else's lives easier. And God, why won't my younger siblings. Just like, please, please, to like work a little harder for mom and dad on this one. Mm-hmm<affirmative> am I touching on anything here? I don't know. I may way off Mm-hmm<affirmative> yeah. Yeah. So like there's that? Or I feel like oldest siblings sometimes can be the like very aloof mm-hmm<affirmative> completely independent sort of, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like I think there's kind of two options that I see there and like sort of the embracing the responsibility that is encouraged mm-hmm<affirmative> for eldest siblings versus avoiding and rejecting that responsibility. Yeah. That is placed on eldest
Speaker 3:Children. Yeah. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Did I get close? I don't know. Just
Speaker 3:To guess that there's, there's plenty to work with in that for sure.
Speaker 2:Sure. Is mm-hmm<affirmative> so I guess saying all that. Yeah. It sounds like we both do to a lot of those stereotypes based on our reactions. Just a guess, just a hu. Just a, just a little guess. So like<laugh> for you then, do you think that having ADHD impacted the way you behaved as an oldest sibling mm-hmm<affirmative> or like, I mean, the questions that you sort of were throwing around earlier of like, do you think it affected how you were diagnosed and yeah. And, or not diagnosed? You know what I mean? Like yeah. Give me the relation here for sure. Between being the oldest sibling and ADHD.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So in my experience, I think the first thing I remember is kind of jumping off that idea of, I need to behave a certain way to make other people's is easier, like a very loud and very immediate feedback loop to acting out to when I wasn't doing that. Mm-hmm<affirmative> like, it was, it was immediately noticed and the effects of it were very immediate. So I think that I got like a very loud message of why that would be useful that time, way to act mm-hmm<affirmative>, you know, and I, I, I think that, I remember that more like in the elementary, maybe middle school age, and I think in high school that kind of turned into a, like, I know how I'm supposed to behave. And I think that generally being socialized as someone who was assigned female at birth, but especially with responsibility and that attention as an oldest child, it meant that I was like very much socialized out of a lot of ADHD symptoms. Mm-hmm<affirmative> in terms of like, we've talked about before you have, like, we've talked about like, this is, this is how ADHD is categorized on the whole. We've just mentioned it. We didn't come up with it, but oh yeah. Like in attentive ADHD, which is what I have versus combined type versus hyperactive. I think that a lot of my, what would have been hyperactive traits were socialized into inattentive traits. Like I had to internalize those mm-hmm<affirmative> and then in high school and beyond I felt like I leaned into maybe following the rules a little bit more, but it was an interplay of like, I know that I can't behave out of line mm-hmm<affirmative> in a certain way, but I'm also really, really easily bored of these rules. And I don't feel like I fit into the system they were made for. And I feel like I'm a lot smart than the people that they were made for and by. So I got very good at just not getting caught or like being the responsible one to earn the right, to break the rules, if that makes sense. Oh yeah. Like, I mean, and I, I don't think that this is necessarily an older sibling thing, but I sorry, mom and dad, I skipped a lot of class just cause I was smart enough to figure out how to do it. Or I had classes where the teacher trusted me so much, who just said, yeah, just bring me a coffee when you come back.<laugh> mm-hmm<affirmative> so yeah, I would say that that was a pretty big part of growing up with just that interplay between I, you know, I feel so much of these things. I'm thinking so quickly. I am struggling to find my place, but the ramifications, if I don't behave felt massive mm-hmm<affirmative> so that was kind of my experience. And in terms of the question, if that affected how I got a diagnosis, I honestly don't know if it did in that sense and I'll touch on that later. Cuz there have been some studies done on this exact same thing that are spoiler alert, not super conclusive, but ask some interesting questions. But if you guys have listened to the episode that my parents came on and talked about it, it's a very good episode. It's a great episode. It was an absolute delight to record and it was kind of insightful for me. I think that there were so many other circumstances going on as to what my school life was like and what my mental health options were at that point in my life that I honestly don't know if it would've changed anything. If I was so somewhere else in the birth order, I had an older sibling or two or three. Yeah. So that's my bit. What about
Speaker 2:You? Okay. Yeah, I feel like just as a whole oldest siblings do generally have in my experience of oldest siblings that I know mm-hmm<affirmative> can sometimes be a little bitter about the sort of lack of attention mm-hmm<affirmative> or sort of like responsibility that they felt was put on them. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I don't mean to say that like, oh, you're bitter<laugh> like, but I, I feel like it's interesting to compare our tones, ah, in this episode Uhhuh. Cause that was like very vulnerable and honest and like very sad.
Speaker 3:Oh God, I'm sorry. No
Speaker 2:It's okay. I, I don't know. But you bring, you know, some, some weight to stuff sometimes, you know, and it's good. It's good. No, we need it. Cuz if it was just this, oh God, if it was just always goose. Oh
Speaker 3:Boy, I'll say all the time.
Speaker 2:Oh boy, boy. Not to say that I can't get vulnerable and not to say you aren't goofy cuz we definitely do both. But I was just gonna say like, I think that a big reason why I have combined type ADHD, like if we're thinking on the nature and nurture sort of in that sort of realm of like socialization and how that impacted things mm-hmm<affirmative> it was the youngest sibling. My parents were so tired. Dad got sick with Ms. When I was in like first or second grade or something. I don't know. I was very young. And so like my parents both worked full time, my siblings way older than me. Like I, I ended up sort of just like, I
Speaker 3:Mean you've described it a lot as being a millennial latch kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like independent in the sense that I spent a lot of time alone mm-hmm<affirmative> and a lot of time, coincidentally, just getting to like read books, play video games, go play outside in the woods. Whenever I wanted, I had pretty much no structure except for when I joined like all of the extracurriculars, because since I was the youngest child, by all lot, my parents didn't have to pay attention to all three of their children at once. And so when I was in high school, like my mom was able to drive me to different practices and rehearsals and whatever mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so it was interesting how it just kind of like flipped depending on what our lives were like collective as a household. But yeah, generally speaking, I got to do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted and I didn't do anything super bad. Uh, or the things that I did do that. Weren't great. I knew how to hide them because separate reason for learning how to hide things, then all the other siblings. But I mean, we all learned how to do it. Yeah. We all learned how to hide stuff. It's just like for different reasons, usually mm-hmm<affirmative> depending on what, where you are in the birth order. Yeah. And what your family dynamic is
Speaker 3:Like<laugh> I, I do wanna clarify before anyone starts getting the idea that I'm like interesting or fun. I was like skipping PE to like sit in the locker room and read Anna. It wasn't like I was gonna go smoke weed with my friend out behind the gym or anything like that. I didn't get invited to do that,
Speaker 2:But it floated your boat. It did. That was your water displacement<laugh>
Speaker 3:It sure was. Yeah, it sure was. Yeah. I just know that my parents listen to this podcast and they're gonna be like, wait, what, what, who is this person? And I'm well, no, it's still me. It's still me. That's fair. I was skipping my drama class to go get coffee for my drama teacher when I came back for drama rehearsal. Yeah. So yeah,
Speaker 2:No that's,<laugh> that's fair. I mean, when I was a TA my senior year of high school for 10th grade biology, there were several days where if I was tired and I had already taken care of all the plants in the greenhouse and like checked in on all the lizards and turtles and snakes and everything after I'd done all the tasks I needed to do as the TA for that period, the teacher had just put like a mini fridge with mountain Dew in it, but like the, the fancy, like sugar cane, you know, the one when they came up with like the raw sugar mountain and do a, but just like always had like a 12 pack of cans in there and would, let me just shut the door to the back office and like take a nap if I really needed to. It was awesome. That sounds
Speaker 3:Like a tight gig. Mm-hmm<affirmative>
Speaker 2:I mean, like I also like helped grade papers and like helped with like labs and helped with whenever they would play like jeopardy or class games. Right. Mm-hmm<affirmative> like, it's helpful to have two slightly like an adult and then an assistant mm-hmm<affirmative> basically, but it was fun, but also like sort of same thing of like, well, you know that I'm not gonna like go on some sort of like week long runaway bender probably. So yeah. You can take the keys for the school for a little bit. That's fine.<laugh> just go get this from my car while you're out there. Thanks. Like, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's fair. So like things that we've talked about before ourselves as friends and like, I think I speak for both of us when I say that it is truly a delightful thing to have in common to have that experience of having certain teachers, like you ENT trust you that much. Yeah. But also like are so chill<laugh> cuz they're like, that's fine. Yeah. Like whatever who cares? Yeah. You're not doing something that's gonna ruin your life right now. You're fine. Yeah. If you need a break, you probably need a break. We, we need more teachers like that. I don't know. I mean, I guess probably administrative people and their safety issues and liability and whatever, but oh, so I can't remember what I was gonna say, but uh, you didn't answer the, do you think that affected if slash not if you did get diagnosed if that affected oh right. The diagnosis process. Right. So socialization wise, I think that I didn't have anything putting any sort of suppressing force on any part of my ADHD. And so I think just all of it, just road force. Yeah. Like a, like a anyway. Yeah. So like a, yeah, I have combined type and I like, I literally, it, people will just like show a list of things that combined type ADHD people will experience. And it's like the most basic list in every single bullet point. I'm like, this is a very, very mean thing specifically aimed at me<laugh> and I hate it called out. Yeah. No, it's pretty rough, but not that rough because we get to talk about it on a podcast, at least. Yeah. And here we are. Yeah. But I, I would say that as the youngest sibling and like having, having sort of like the option of my parents full attention, but not having their full attention by choice mm-hmm<affirmative>, you know, you know what I mean? There were maybe some things that, that were either missed because they have their own lives and we're doing their own thing. And I don't know. I'm just, if my parents do ever listen to this episode, I'd wanna just make the same clarification of like you did fine. I'm fine. Everything's fine. I love you very much. Everything's fine. But like, it just sounds depressing, but it's not mm-hmm<affirmative>, maybe it is. And I'm desensitized. Who cares anyways? I think that in terms of getting a diagnosis, it definitely, I don't know if it's directly to this, like related to being a youngest slash oldest child and not really having any structure, but I think it probably is pretty connected<laugh> in that once I reached college and then grad school and the less and less structure I had, mm-hmm<affirmative> more and more my life sort of just unraveled at parts because there were just things that I had never, I had just never had any reason to yeah. Utilize. And so I think that, you know, may have affected the fact that I didn't get diagnosed till way later in life, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, like pro I guess sort of same thing, right? Like this is not conclusive, but that's my experience and it seems like it's connected.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That makes sense. And I think you're really not alone in having the experience of, I was fine. And then my structure got trashed. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and now here I am. Mm-hmm<affirmative> welcome. Pandemic ADHD diagnosis team. Mm-hmm<affirmative> why do y'all you are in good company. Sure. It's interesting. I was looking into this episode cuz we were like, let's not do a big education station episode this time. Let's just talk. And I was like, I'm gonna raise search it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. Um,<laugh> well, what do you got? There
Speaker 3:Have been some studies on if birth order affects ADHD and they're not super conclusive, but there have been a couple that have said that it is more likely for eldest siblings to be diagnosed with ADHD. Interesting. Yeah. One of the things that they suggested that I thought was interesting was that, you know, they're measuring how likely it was to be diagnosed with ADHD. And one of the things that they said was possibly a factor that was maybe not as much more likely to have ADHD, but there's also a stereotype of parents being a little bit it more finicky, a little more nervous, a little more sort of ego lied. Yeah. They're
Speaker 2:Paying more attention with the oldest, for the oldest, with the first one. Yeah. No that's that's pretty. Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3:So they would just be more inclined to go, is this normal? Is this a problem? Let's get this checked out. What's going on? Mm-hmm<affirmative> mm-hmm<affirmative><affirmative> so they're to just more likely to be assessed than other kids because of that. That makes sense. Yeah. Uh, one of the studies also concluded that, uh, they said firstborn children may receive simultaneously less parental resources and more responsibilities if younger siblings are born. And the fact that that happens during a vulnerable element period of ADHD, can, I don't exactly know the, how that happens, the mechanisms of it, but they suggested that that could be in effect as well. So well, as an eldest sibling, I thought that was interesting and, and rang fairly true. Yeah. That's
Speaker 2:Fair. Makes sense. Yeah. Well
Speaker 3:Cool.
Speaker 2:Nerd. Yeah. Thanks for bringing some research.
Speaker 3:Yep. You're you're so welcome. And again, like I said, there've been a lot of inconclusive studies about this and these are just a couple people who are like, we noticed that it's a slightly higher trend mm-hmm<affirmative> or there's a trend, but we don't know exactly what's causing it. So we can't say that this is a solid conclusion yet, but I thought that those factors were in.
Speaker 2:I know, I thought that you thought they were boring and useless and that's why you decided to bring them on our podcast.
Speaker 3:This is actually an ASMR podcast. We hoped you'd be asleep by now. Stop
Speaker 2:It<laugh> stop. This would be really bad. ASMR<laugh> would just truly awful grading, not relaxing at all. If
Speaker 3:There's someone out there who finds this podcast, relaxing and likes to listen to it,
Speaker 2:To relax. Oh actually, um, I have heard our dear friend of us and the show Uhhuh<affirmative> Sean Hendrickson has listened to this podcast while falling asleep before. So if that's what's happening now, sweet dreams, sweet dreams, sweet prints. May the hibernating bears welcome you into their open arms for a nice little snooze. May you
Speaker 3:Drift into dreamland on a warm river of French on
Speaker 2:Soup in may your roommate not come in and assault you in your sleep? Is he his want to do amen. 20? That's how you manifest with that?<laugh> uh, so, uh,
Speaker 3:Aside from our mutual consistent love of harassing Sean, what's your DT this week
Speaker 2:<laugh> oh, I forgot. No, give a sec. Give me a sec. You're you're good. I'll pull, pause information on pause it. Okay. Okay. Do you remember what I said it was gonna
Speaker 3:Be? You didn't tell me cuz I said what's your DT and you're like, I'm not gonna tell you. I'm gonna say that. You said that to me yesterday. I
Speaker 2:Did say that to you.<laugh>. Oh. Shut myself and Lindsay<laugh>. Oh, yep. I remember. Okay. Okay. Okay. Everyone. Okay. Team. I remembered we're good. We're back. We were, it only took like half hour or so. I'm just kidding. It was only like 30 seconds. It's fine. Okay, go ahead. It was, it was not that long. Okay. It's very specific, very niche. Not anything that's very relatable. Unless you have, uh, similarly funny relatives who have the same exact joke or have the same exact sense of humor, which I'm sure exists. But if you've had this exact conversation before, I don't know. But so we're sitting at the table, some of my family mm-hmm<affirmative> and uh,<affirmative> we're talking about TV shows and in, in context, we're sitting with several older male relatives mm-hmm<affirmative> and you know, talking about how a lot of their wives and uh, daughters mm-hmm<affirmative> and friends who are women, et cetera, all watch this Scottish show called Outlander. So sorry. And no, Jordan, Jordan is new. Exactly what I was gonna say as soon as I started the DT, but they did not know what it was gonna be before this moment. Yeah. So, and I'm real. See, I'm glad that I held off. I'm glad that I saved it. So, so we're talking about this show Outlander. I'm sure several of you have at least heard of it. It's not everyone's cup of tea. It's not, I'm not gonna say it's a good or bad show. That is not my place to say. Um, that's a show tread cautiously. Mm-hmm<affirmative> that's what I will say to you. Mm-hmm<affirmative> check the trigger warnings on that. Uh, check. Does the dog die and all those good places before you start it, please, if you're intrigued. Yes. Um, because like I can see why people like it mm-hmm<affirmative> um, because I did personally binge all five seasons in like one week mm-hmm<affirmative> and I'm fresh off of this binge mm-hmm<affirmative> I find out that there's, uh, some of my relatives really like this show mm-hmm<affirmative> and I'm sitting with other relatives who are related to the, to the relatives who love Outlander mm-hmm<affirmative> and they are like, yeah, no, my wife loves that. Like basically Scottish soft porn show. It's great. Mm-hmm<affirmative> um, you know, like can't, can't get her away from the TV when the new episode drops or whatever, you know, that kind of mm-hmm<affirmative> conversation. Mm-hmm<affirmative> a little later down the line, you know, where we've moved on. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and we're talking about inexplicably. Someone brings up what movie and TV adaptations would be best mm-hmm<affirmative> if they were done with the Muppets. Yeah. And I believe it was one of these same relatives. Mm-hmm<affirmative> these one of these older men, very gentle, very chill, just enjoying his Turkey and mashed potatoes.<laugh> just chilling, having a conversation with I'm so sorry. I'm trying. So mm-hmm<affirmative> mm-hmm<affirmative> and so he, he just goes Outlander<laugh> but with the Muppets<laugh> and I've been so hooked on this whole idea because I'm just see here's the thing. Thank God. Just real quick, just real quick. This is my DT. So we're going to, we're going to just explore and play in this little, little space that we've created Uhhuh. So for those of you who watch Outlander, you know, but if you don't watch Outlander the basic plot, which like I'm not really spoiling anything, cuz it's the, the pilot episode, you get it right out. The gate they're is this woman from the 1940s who after world war II ends is reconnecting with her husband who was away at the war while she was actually a nurse at the front lines. Uh, and like there's this whole thing. So world war II ends, they go on a sort of pseudo renewing honeymoon to know one another after the war mm-hmm<affirmative> and they go up to Scotland because he's a history professor. And so he's showing her around all of these historical sites, including these stones and circles that you know, that the Druids perform, you know, different rituals, et cetera, et cetera. You see where this is going. Mm-hmm<affirmative> uh, she goes back the next day, this main character, Claire, she goes back the next day, cuz she wants to check out some flowers. She touches one of the stones cuz she can hear it vibrating and humming. And she finds herself, dropped right down into the 1740s in the midst of, uh, conflict, because this is about the time when the British army is called red coats in real time. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and the Scottish are counting on Bonnie prince Charlie to reclaim the throne for the stewards. So she falls into a completely different world and of course falls in love. But I won't tell you with who, but imagine with me, because one character has to be human mm-hmm<affirmative> and the restroom Muppets, which means that either Claire, the main character is played by like miss Peggy Uhhuh to the actor who plays opposite of Claire Uhhuh<affirmative> um, to, to play Jamie mm-hmm<affirmative> um, or mm-hmm<affirmative> Claire is the human who falls back in time and falls in love with Kerm at the frog.<laugh> wearing a guilt
Speaker 3:As much as I love the idea of Carmit the frog. I wanna propose an attempt
Speaker 2:At a, are you trying to be subversive with the MOS? No,
Speaker 3:No. I'm not trying to be subversive. Okay. I'm just, I'm thinking about the um, the sassier elements of that show and how to make it like a little less, um, unbalanced in that respect.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. Um, cause you have one human.
Speaker 3:Well there's because this is historical show. I I'm wondering, and I have not watched any Outlander. Uh okay. Just you guys
Speaker 2:Know. Yeah. Can confirm. But is there
Speaker 3:Sort of like the king shows up in Hamilton just for that bit part like on Monarch or like historical real historical figure<laugh>
Speaker 2:If you watch Outlander, you know, and you know what I'm thinking and you're also hating it. Oh no. It's okay. Cause I'm hating it. Oh no, they meet, she meets the sun king like king Louis, the oh, which, which one is the sun king Louis the eighth. Let me text. Let me check. Okay. Yeah. No it is Louis the 14th. Okay. Yeah. No, I mean they do meet like she meets Louis the 14th, like the sun king mm-hmm<affirmative> Versai as you do that, not good things happen. Oh. So that's the thing. This show it's not ideal. It would not be a good show for'em up. It's remake, but it's so funny to think about<laugh> and so it's like so horrifying. You have to laugh. Yeah, no, I, I would not like to see Ker with the frog assault somebody. No, thank you. Exact. So that's what I'm saying. Like there, there are monarchs that come in, but ah, like the, the whole sort of thing with Outlander is like, no one is all good. Mm. Like everyone's got something mm-hmm<affirmative> wrong with them. Mm-hmm<affirmative> nobody, you know, everybody stinks, but there are many of them who do have, if I may say even stinkier than other people.
Speaker 3:So, so there's no way to win this one. I was there.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely not.<laugh> it's just bad all around, but it's so funny. And it's so funny to me that it was suggested by
Speaker 3:One of your uncles. Yeah. At family Thanksgiving. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep. It's very good. So that's my DT. Yeah. It,
Speaker 3:It was very good. I was there. Yeah. For that moment, it was very funny and reliving it now has been such a treasure. You're
Speaker 2:Welcome. Hopefully for those at home, you either know Outlander and you also thought it was funny. You don't know Outlander, but you know of it. So you thought it was funny or you just laughed anyways, cuz you're nice.<laugh> okay. And you're just make sure that I feel good on this one. All right, everybody. Okay.
Speaker 3:Crushed it. Best DT ever. Please
Speaker 2:Laugh.
Speaker 3:<laugh> ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. No, but for real I the sounds of my just like choking on my own. Laughter. Trying to let you get it through that. We're not too oppressive.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's super fair. I was struggling. No, that was good though. It really fed me.<laugh> spiritually, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. At least I can do bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What's
Speaker 3:Yours though. So my, my dopamine trampoline this week, our leaf sheet. Okay. Have you heard about leaf
Speaker 2:Sheet? I think I'm about to hear about sheep.
Speaker 3:So leaf sheep, they're also called sea sheep. Apparently they're originally called Sean the sheep by the researchers who discovered them, their sea slugs. Okay. Uh, they originally discovered off the coast of one of the Japanese islands in like 1999, a fairly recent, fairly new to the scene. Okay. In sea Lu time. Sure. Also, you know, now we know that their habitat is that area and the Philippines and that area of the ocean. Yeah. These are the cutest little I have ever seen. Well, hit me with it. I'm gonna show you a picture. I'm saying, so I'm gonna share some
Speaker 2:Give gave, gave it to me.
Speaker 3:I forgive the bumping.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well just little dudes. Yeah. Little dudes. Yeah. They are definitely alien looking like most things under the sea. Yeah. But for are like alien under the sea sort of like, that was very cute. Yeah. It was very, very, very cute looking
Speaker 3:And they're tiny. Yeah. They usually grow between five millimeters and a centimeter stop. I know. That's so little. So they're like lady Bugsy.<laugh> they're just little dudes. They're just little dudes. Wow. Uh, and we'll, we'll share some pictures to the grand and the tweets. So y'all can revel in the delight that is leafy. They,
Speaker 2:They just look so small. Yeah. Like they just look too, like they're just little dudes. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. Like they're just cute little dudes. Like that's a leaf
Speaker 3:Sheep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and for those of you who are listening to this, uh, and not seeing the pictures yet, what they look like is basically like imagine a tiny, tiny Poupon except instead of spines it's squishy slug material, little leaves. Yeah. It
Speaker 2:Almost, almost looks like if an artichoke were made out of slug.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Like definitely looks like a Pokemon. Yes, absolutely does. And they've got those sort of like big oval, but bigger at the bottom white face, like a sheep or like a cartoon sheep. Yeah. Yes. Like sheep. I wanna be very,
Speaker 2:I mean, that makes sense that they, they
Speaker 3:Polish on the sheep. Yes. And it's got like two little tiny close together. Black Mey eyes. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and then it's got these ears, the ears are called rhino fours. They almost sort of look like floppy moth antenna. Mm-hmm<affirmative> where they're like a little feathery mm-hmm<affirmative> and they're like purple. And there's like, what? On either side of its head that kind of flopped down like fluffy ears. Mm-hmm<affirmative> so they're very cute. They're so cute. And the thing that's super cool about leaf sheep too, is the reason that their backs are green. This is very cool. They eat algae mm-hmm<affirmative> and then they eat the algae and they orb the chloroplast, which hold the chlorophyl green bit. That does the photosynthesis. Yes. In their little leafy bits. And then they can photosynthesize. Yeah. Which I don't believe there are any other like animals that can do that. Like the only other things that can photo synthesize are plants and some like single will sell organisms and leaf sheep. So they got leaves on their back.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't know enough about leaf sheep and photosynthesizing organisms to tell you anything different.
Speaker 3:That's okay. I just, I read that on the internet. So maybe it's true. Maybe it's not. Well,
Speaker 2:Why would someone lie about the leaf sheep
Speaker 3:Though? You know? Yeah. It's at least one of the few multicellular organisms that can do that. I'm so proud of them. They're doing so good. And the other thing that's fun is that their little floppy ears, those are also like their noses and they can sense different chemicals in the water with their little purple ear. Yeah. And that's how they find the algae to eat. That's very good. Yeah. They're just floating around in the ocean. They kinda look like really friendly green pine cones. Yeah. And I just love looking at'em
Speaker 2:<laugh> yeah. Well thank you for
Speaker 3:Sharing. My pleasure. Yeah. I will be putting so many pictures of these. I love these on
Speaker 2:Twitter. Yeah. I love these little artichoke shaped dudes. Yeah. Me too. Like, I feel like they are incapable of moving in a way that does not immediately remind me of a studio jibing movie. Oh yeah. You know
Speaker 3:What I mean? Absolutely. They're just kind of fluffing
Speaker 2:Around, like they just kind of boo. Yeah. They blo. Yeah. They
Speaker 3:Boo. Also I remembered the word, the little leaf light green parts on my back are called. Sarrata
Speaker 2:Cute. Yeah. Wow. It's just a nice word to say. I love these guys Sera. Wow. I just love these guys so much. Me too. Thank you. My pleasure. Wow. The dopamine is really off the charts right now. Okay. I'm so excited. I'm so to share pictures of these hell yeah, yeah. Oh, Hey, Hey. Since it's the sibling episode. Oh yeah. Just to like, so thanks for listening to everything.<laugh> thanks for listening to us. Talk about like slugs and uncles saying things and then, you know, some bare, some bare bones, you know, some bare bone, some bare bones, birth order sort of speculation and how it relates to ADHD and all that. Mm-hmm<affirmative> thanks for tuning. In this week. This
Speaker 3:Has been or learn parkour from old hearted production
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Speaker 3:Thanks to CRE Shipo for our cover art Disney, you can find her at pet hop. That's P E T a L H O P on Instagram and Etsy and Twitter now is a great time to order some stuff for the holidays from her cuz her stuff is fantastic.
Speaker 2:Check it out. Yeah. And thanks to Tom Rosenthal for our theme song, there is a dark place off of the album keeper, private room behind the shop.
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Speaker 3:Can. Uh, if you enjoy this podcast and would like to hear more, now's a great time to hit follow hit, like hit subscribe, you know the
Speaker 2:Drill. Yeah. You could also support us by donating to our COFI telling a friend, writing a review, you know, writing a really negative opinion, sort of Twitter thread. Still waiting for that fight. Maybe we are above reproach. No one is find something and we'll we can fight. I promise we got beef. I can make it. I can make it happen. Can we can pull some out with freezer? Yeah. But yeah. Tell people, tell people about this podcast. That'd
Speaker 3:Be great. And we really appreciate it. We
Speaker 2:Super would. I'm Jordan and I'm
Speaker 3:Sylvie. And this has Ben or Lauren Park core. We'll see you in two weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Let's see a famous Sy
Speaker 3:Oh, famous siblings. Mm-hmm<affirmative> um, property
Speaker 2:Brothers. Yeah. I guess they would count. What do you got? Oh, whole Cogan. Have a brother. Does he? You cause he he's whole Cogan. And he says, is that not what he sounds like?<laugh> Wait, is that not how you talk to your brother?<laugh> is that not? Well it's now I'm just gonna call her all up and be like, why should we get mom and dad for Christmas?
Speaker 4:I really like to record do.